Frank Duff Interviews
Young Frank Duff
Frank’s father was a civil servant and so was his mother. She had the distinction of passing the first examination in the old British and Irish Civil Service open to women and she was appointed to London where she was for a few years. Then they extended the system to Ireland and so she came back. It was in the family to be a civil servant and that's what Frank became in due course.
There were seven children born in all. Two of the girls died young. That left five, three girls, his brother and himself.
After being in what they used to call Dames' Schools for a while, Frank spent two years in Belvidere College run by the Jesuits and
then later because of a change of residence, he was sent to Blackrock where he completed his education.
After that he became a civil servant, working for the Irish government.
In the year 1921 the Legion was founded. Frank continued as a civil servant until 1933. At that point he had the chance to leave the Civil Service. He had for quite a while been suffering from the realization that the two things were incompatible. Sometimes he used to even think that he was dying under the strain. In any case, he decided to quit his job and then he devoted his full time to the Legion of Mary.
Frank Duff’s Thoughts on the Legion
Frank Duff was asked whether it was the same Legion today that he had envisioned in the beginning and was it really all that he hoped it would be, he answered:
“Well, that's what I would call a tough question because it presumes some sort of foresight in me which I do not possess. You might as well put that to a mother about her young child - had she envisioned that he would become something very big? It is true that quickly enough I saw that we were dealing with something completely out of the ordinary. Some have suggested that that occurred at the second meeting of the Legion. That was not so. But it occurred within three months of its birth that I did tell them that they were destined to cover the whole world. What was I going by? I was going by the terribly evident spirit of what I saw in operation. I was accustomed to good organization. I was in a number of things around me which I thought were awfully good. And I said to myself: 'This is remarkable! Ordinary, simple people with whom you would not associate the idea of very great accomplishment showing a degree of spirit which seemed to be limitless.' And, building on that idea, I ventured on the prognostication to them that they would encompass the whole world. They thought it so funny that they must have consumed the best part of five minutes in uproarious laughter. Such was the respect with which the prophecy was treated.”
When he was asked whether he thought the Legion has the same caliber of membership today as those who, in the early days, went into Bentley Place with fear of possible losing their lives, he responded:
“Of course! There's no question whatever about it. From that point of view really standards are higher because those members took their assignments as a matter of course and would go to a place like Bentley Place or other difficult situations just as a matter of common duty. Well, I would say the same situation exists today. We find for instance in any of the Peregrinatio Ventures, that the Legionaries go off to countries which at first sight constitute perilous adventures and they do it as a matter of course. That could have meant very little in a small body like the original body but it becomes more impressive when you see it on a large scale as today. Oh, the caliber of the membership today is simply without any limit. Now, just to make that clear. There is an artificial limit imposed but usually it is from outside, that is, you'll get members to do anything which is proposed to them but then for several various reasons that very lofty proposition is not made to them frequently. There was a case recently of a group of members who wanted to undertake a specially difficult Peregrinatio. They came to us and mentioned a certain venture. It terrified us! That proposal proceeded from rank and file members who knew its difficulties and yet were prepared to go. I'd like to be able to give you a fuller account of the episode because it is so remarkable but perhaps we would better not give any publicity to it. But I'd say that it was something which very probably would have ended in their death. Very probably. It was from ourselves that the obstacle proceeded in the end. We wouldn't let them go.”
Frank said that his definition of a true Legionary was one who understands the rules and obeys them. Then he said that he might add another requirement. We would have to have the assurance that that person was going to last in the Legion. So you have to supply the additional proviso that such a person had continued a certain amount of time in the Legion. That would be the only guarantee really in the end that a person was a good Legionary, that he had lasted the course.
The Future of the Legion
Frank Duff was asked what provisions he had made to protect his ideals after he had gone and did he see the Legion continuing as it is at present after he was gone. He responded:
“That's a peculiar position and demands an amount of foresight and an amount of control over the future that doesn't exist to me. In any case, to answer that question I would have to ascend to the realm of faith and devotion and I would have to say to myself: 'Well, the Legion from its first moment was in the hands of the Blessed Virgin. My departure from the scene is not going to remove it from her hands'. We must have sufficient belief to think that her dispensation would continue on undiminished, perhaps greater, inasmuch as the Legion becomes more and more a vital element to the Church.
One of the questions asked was what I had envisioned about the future of the Legion fifty or sixty years ago. I, of course, had not envisioned anything like what has happened. That reply of mine about the Legion covering the world only saw it as covering the world in its then present type of action. But my mind had not expanded to the extent of thinking that it was going to become the right arm of the Catholic Church. It's an absolute essential! And that fact, you see, has at last been completely and unreservedly recognized.
Our recent visit to Rome (March 1979) was utter evidence of that. Everybody we dealt with in Rome including the great man at the top was satisfied about that and was trying to put their realization into a distinguished welcome. They all realized it. There's nothing else. What else is there? And to that extent it's tragic to see so many of the important people of the world on whom that fact has not yet dawned! To that extent they are actually acting in a manner contrary to the true welfare of the Catholic Church. That's the way I'd have to look on your question. As I see things, the Legion has only now arrived at adult stature-only now. Up to the present it has in a sense been in the cradle. Now it is a grown and armed soldier ready for the terrible fray that the next century is going to place us in the midst of.”
He saw it as continuing and even doing bigger and better things. He said, “That is my conception. Other people wouldn't agree with it. It is said that at the Council many of the important figures, the Bishops, wanted to put the Legion into one of the decrees by name and that proposal was seriously considered and put aside for sufficient reasons, because, in the first case, such a move would stir up a certain amount of jealousy against the Legion which would not be a help to it and, in the second case, supposing in the designs of Providence that the Legion dies out in ten years and something else created by Providence and better than the Legion rises up. Well, that organization is not named in any decree and there's the dead organization enshrined in the decree. One can understand the good sense of all of that.”
The Handbook tells us that the Work is Secondary.
Frank Duff said, “That is the most important truth about the Legion. There is something which ascends far higher than the nature of the work and that is the spirit, the faith of the Legion. What's the good in concentrating upon very high class work if you don't possess the ingredients for setting about it?”
“That's the fault of the world today tremendous programs and when the people proceed to analyze what they have got to accomplish those programs with, they find they have nothing! They fill pages with ambitious schemes and they don't advance an inch on the way of realizing them. That's the fault of this present moment. It's all a paper scheme. They're all designing paper schemes. They're writing out programs which presume a real army to carry through and they have no army! The thing is fantastic and represents a great waste of paper to put it at no higher valuation than that! The first question to be answered before you think of advancing towards the simplest work is: ‘Have you got the human material to undertake it?’ The second is: 'Has that human material itself got the capacity to undertake it and persevere?'"
“For the Legion then the spiritual development of the individual is primary and the work is secondary. That must be the first thing-the development of the instrument. If you want to saw wood, you have to have a saw and that saw has to possess a certain quality. That's the simplicity of the system. When you talk about the spirit of the Legion and its faith, you must then become precise to another degree and you must say to yourself: "Well, now what do you mean by spirit? What do you mean by faith? Is a simple undeveloped faith that God is mighty and is perhaps on your side and leave things at that?" Well, of course, no! You have to have the entry of what we might call theological considerations into the position. It must be a complete faith. It must be a Catholic faith. It must believe in the doctrines of the Catholic Church. It must believe in someone who is far too much neglected today and that's the Blessed Virgin. Supposing now somebody said to us who was able to do it: "Well, now we'll put you in every parish in the whole world in great size with every opportunity to attack the work in the way you wish but one condition is necessary". And we say, "Well, what's that?" "That you cut out all this nonsense about the Blessed Virgin, take a more sensible view of her". In other words 'Cut her out'. Well, of course, we don't hesitate for the proverbial second. Our answer has to be a total refusal!”
The Accomplishments of the Legion
Frank Duff said, “The outstanding accomplishments of the Legion are so numerous that it is hard enough to rattle them off. I still am inclined to think that the greatest one was enacted in the Philippines which everybody considered to have drifted too far for anything in the way of a rapid restoration. The celebrated Dr. E. J. McCarthy, who was sent there by the Columban Fathers to investigate the position, reported that evangelization would have to begin all over again-that the Islands were too far gone for a rapid restoration. Now there's a great mind. He wouldn't attempt to start the Legion for that reason even though we argued with him. He said he didn't see even one potential Legionary in the San Tomaso University of which he was the Spiritual Director. But a Spanish priest, Father Gracia, a Vincentian, came in. Within a fortnight he had two Praesidia on foot. Then in the first year, there were fourteen. During the Japanese occupation which followed that rose to one hundred. Now there are possibly ten thousand Praesidia and it's a Catholic land again. A country that had no priests was able to open a foreign missionary college. There's an abundance of vocations for men and women. We're looking at a rather marvelous happening in Iceland at the moment where the most impossible enterprise in the world was attempted and just at this moment, apart from what has happened up to the present, there are fifteen persons under instruction. And much more than that. It is evident that the whole atmosphere of that island has become permeated with Catholicism.”
The Ordinary Lay Person is Capable of Apostleship.
Frank Duff said, “In fact, I'd say the biggest thing of all in the Legion is that it has proven the fact that the ordinary lay person down to the very simplest person is capable of apostleship. That was never dreamt of in earlier times. I myself would be daring enough to say that Vatican Council Two represents an act of faith in the Legion of Mary. They legislated on the mobilizing of the People of God. Well, that's a vain proposition without the Legion. You're not mobilizing the People of God by getting a whole lot of elect persons to write grand treatises about everything. That's not mobilizing the People of God! You have to be able to get the ordinary, even the illiterate person. That's the great success of the Legion - it's mobilization of those people of the world who would have been deemed unfit for apostleship. There they are in our ranks and here we are not boasting of the princesses and other people whom we have in our ranks but of the simple people of the world. That's our chief possession. That's what Pope Paul said: "What I like most about the Legion of Mary is that it knows how to use the little people.
Maker of Saints
Frank Duff said, “What about the Legion as a maker of Saints? A justified name because it puts into the Legionary mind the capacity of understanding the great Catholic Doctrines: the doctrine of the Mystical Body which St. Thomas Aquinas says is the central doctrine of the Church; the Motherhood of Our Lady - the extraordinary sway of Our Lady over the Holy Spirit. You have to use an expression so extreme as that to denote the truth. These things it teaches the rank and file of the Legion. These things are holy and sanctifying. They make Saints. And they make Saints by the bushel. Now, and that is a truthful statement. By itself the Legion could solve the whole question of the vocations for the Church.”
How the Legion Got its Name
How did this organization come to be called the Legion of Mary? The organization which came into being on September 7, 1921 was not at first called the Legion of Mary. The organization that started that night called itself the Association of Our Lady of Mercy. The first work proposed by that little band was the visitation of the hospital for the poor known as the Dublin Union which had 4,000 people in it of the poorest types. The Nuns, when the suggestion had been made to them that the Legion should be allowed to come up and visit, welcomed it with extraordinary cordiality. The Reverend Mother said that she would request every Nun in the place to offer Mass and Holy Communion for the success of the venture.
Now it's an odd point that, although the organization held its first meeting at First Vespers of Our Lady's Nativity (September 7th) that that fact was not adverted to. The next day was the Feast of Our Lady's Nativity.
The fact was that the members who met on that first night had in their minds an idea of Our Lady and her position in the order of grace which was derived from St. Louis DeMontfort. Seventeen days before that there had been a special gathering in response to the big question: "Oh, we want to know more about DeMontfort and his devotion. We are interested but we don't understand it." That meeting was held, they discussed the question for two hours and came to no visible conclusion inasmuch as no resolution was passed and indeed no decision of any kind was come to.
But that meeting, as events proved, established in each of those persons present a conviction regarding Our Lady's essential place. And when that first gathering on the First Vespers of Our Lady's Nativity took place, they embodied the idea without any discussion. There was no proposing, seconding, or argument. They had this picture and that was Our Lady's place in the Legion. Afterwards it was a completely inevitable that the organization should name itself after her.
Now Providence showed itself very much in that whole situation because if the decision were taken at that first meeting in regard to the final name of the Legion, it might have been called The Patricians. The organization indirectly emerged from the Conference of St. Patrick of the St. Vincent de Paul society to which they owed the hospitality of Myra House. Well, the Patricians would not have been the right name for the Legion for various reasons. It would have been convenient enough but the unhesitating eye of the Legion was on Our Lady. It started off under the title of the Association of Our Lady of Mercy and very shortly afterwards a second branch came into existence. That second branch called itself the Immaculate Conception. The third called itself Our Lady of the Sacred Heart and the fourth, Our Lady, Refuge of Sinners.
Now those four branches emerged in the first year. After that in slow succession came the other names and, you might say, "At what stage did the idea of the final name or a global name insert itself?" Well, the moment was when the Dublin Curia was established. When, five or possibly six branches were in existence, the Curia was established and it held its first meeting in Myra House. From that moment the need of a name, of course, became emphatic.
What is its name? This became so felt that after a little while a Novena was ordered for enlightenment. And this Novena was conscientiously fulfilled by all the members of the Curia. And the meeting came on and that item in due course presented itself, what would be the name? Quite a fantastic number of names were suggested. Most of them were not suitable. Various names were proposed and then Frank Duff presented the name, "The Legion of Mary."
Why did Frank have that name in mind? The previous night he had been thinking and thinking and thinking over the name of which he recognized the importance. A name can make or mar an organization. He was thinking anxiously. It was well after midnight and he was thinking of going to bed. He was on his feet at the time and there was in his room, not his bedroom but the room where he worked, a very beautiful picture of Our Lady. He stood in front of that looking at it and into his mind came "The Legion of Mary."
There was no question in his mind but that it was the right name - utterly certain that this was the name. He didn’t think again about the matter until he brought it up at the meeting and to his complete consternation, it was rejected! He felt so distressed when that happened because all the other names that had been suggested were defective in some way or another. That this obviously perfect name should be passed over was unthinkable. Fortunately there was agreement in regards to the fact that none of the other names were suitable. And so no choice was made.
They drifted back to the old situation and remained in that for a further period. The considerations which demanded a name renewed themselves and again a Novena was ordered and again the item was raised at the meeting. Frank said nothing because he had done his best. Again the whole series of the same old names, with perhaps a few new ones, was brought up. Then Father Creedon turned to Frank and said: "Surely, you have some suggestion." Frank had made no contribution to the debate. His reply was: "Well, I mentioned a name last time and I have not been able to improve on it." The result was that his suggestion was carried unanimously, and Frank would think that no doubt has ever existed in his mind as to the appropriateness of the name.
The Handbook
The Handbook is another item which stands out in Legionaries’ minds. Perhaps there are people who think that some man in Dublin just sat down and wrote a book and we have to obey it. But how did the Handbook come into being?
The Legion has always declared that it was an unpremeditated organization. Nobody sat down at the beginning and put on paper what the Legion was intended to be. It was never anything remotely like that. One of the happier features about the Legion was the small human participation in its shaping and leaving it to be assumed there was divine shaping. The history of the Legion has that character of one step leading to another step. No planning. Planning almost nil and yet the perfect thing taking place.
So, the Legion was started without a Handbook and without prayers. They prayed simply by tradition. The monthly meeting which had preceded the starting of the Legion had as its prayers the invocation of the Holy Spirit which precedes the Rosary, the Rosary itself and those ejaculations. That's what the first Legion meeting began with, by tradition, by just following what was before. There was no Catena and the concluding prayer which was said for some time was the St. Vincent De Paul Society concluding prayer. Now, of course, these things had to be improved on.
This first meeting of the Legion invoked St. Vincent De Paul and St. Patrick. Now, the process of tinkering around with some of those saints began, and after a while the concluding prayer of the Legion emerged, the present one. When that was proposed to the members, it was unhesitatingly accepted as suitable. The Catena came a little bit later. They felt that the Legion should just have a sort of insertion of prayer somewhere in the middle of the meeting and that produced the Catena. The prayers were approved, that's a very important thing, before any other written item of the Legion Program. They were approved and given the Imprimatur.
At that moment the Legion had roughly its present form. When they introduced themselves outside Dublin in 1927, they were fairly armed with characteristic usages and with prayers. They were, in other words, the modern Legion. The first circumstance that brought peremptorily before their minds the necessity for having something printed was their proposed entry into Scotland. Now they going to another country with all sorts of possibilities of divergence and for that you must have something on paper. They put down a brief exposition of the Legion of Mary which would be there in the records. They kept exact records from the first second. There was nothing slipshod along the road. That gave a truthful, but, of course, very sketchy account of the Legion but enough to be able to start on. That meant that the first branch in Scotland did start with a printed document. Out of that began to emerge the Handbook because they began to think in terms of formal approbation of the society and that, of course, demanded a written presentation with a reasonable degree of fullness.
So, the Handbook was written from what was in existence. It was the very opposite to what would be usually called a Handbook. Normally, anything of that kind is written in advance of an organization and the organization seeks to conform itself to it. Here was quite the opposite. The organization was like the growing child and reached the stage when it became necessary that they understand it better. How's that child work? What are the important features and so forth? The Handbook endeavored to put down precisely on paper what it saw.
Frank Duff did most of the writing. In all that he said he was just minutely examining what was at work, no planning, just examining and ‘photographing’ to use a suitable image in this particular place.
And everything in the meantime before the final emergence of the Handbook produced many little changes. Everything else was just tradition. As a very interesting item, the first President chosen at the first meeting was a lady called Mrs. Kirwan who actually was born at the opposite side of the globe, in New Zealand. If you plumbed through the earth from Dublin, she was born where that line would come out on the other side, Dunedin, New Zealand. She was a very masterful person. She was the only person of years in the first gathering. She was a wonderful character and she governed her little flock, including Frank and Father Toher, with a rod of gold. But she did not spare them when necessary and she got the rule kept.
She had a quiet way of putting you in your place and keeping things in order. Frank remembered one of the finest episodes that could be recorded during that time was a wonderful case where two very young legionaries had brought off a daring exploit and they were telling it. All were listening there with utter intensity. Finally the story rolled to its conclusion and they sat there no doubt expecting what they got and that was a tremendous ovation. Everyone clapped violently. During this Mrs. Kirwan sat there quite impassively and the moment of quiet came in the end. She said to them, "You broke a rule. And there is no merit in the whole transaction for you."
The Legion Promise
The Legion Promise is very much associated with Pentecost. The idea had often been suggested that there should be a Legion Promise. That's a view easily said but to put that into being, is utterly difficult. Of what nature is it to be? A mere promise could be a very empty sort of thing. You could have a formula there that would be just a promise and no more, whereas here you have somehow or other to minister to the whole scheme of the Legion. You have to make the member declare some understanding of what the Legion really is and say it in circumstances that are of great solemnity. This requires some degree of faith, real faith. And then you have to take the further step of refusing to bring into the organization a person who raises difficulties about the Promise.
Obviously, the idea of a Promise was just like the physical things of the Legion such as the Tessera and the Vexillum. It must in its whole get-up mirror the spiritual system of the Legion. The Holy Spirit surmounts the whole picture in all these things - in its prayer system, in the Tessera which was an artistic pictorial thing and in the Vexillum.
So, it was on Pentecost Sunday, down in the Monastery of Mount Melleray, that the detailed idea of the Promise presented itself to Frank Duff. And with it came the rather electrifying conclusion that it must be directed to the Holy Spirit and not to Our Lady. That's what you would call electrifying because up to that stage, while the prayers began with the Holy Spirit and while the Holy Spirit surmounted these artistic things, still Our Lady was the dominant personality. Our Lady was what people thought of and in a very secondary way, the Holy Spirit. But out of that came the revolutionary notion: "Well, we've got to put first things really first." And the Promise was written in the form in which it now exists.
Frank said that that was rather a momentous moment in the history of the Legion. It was a moment of comprehension when the Legion for the first time really got some glimpse of itself as the Legion of the Holy Spirit. You were not switching over, so to speak, your allegiance. You weren't rejecting Our Blessed Lady in favor of something bigger. No! You were seeing more clearly into Mary and what emerged from it was a tremendous awareness of the Holy Spirit - what the Holy Spirit was in her. That was how the Legion Promise emerged.
In any case, when the Promise as addressed to the Holy Spirit was placed before the Concilium, it was unanimously adopted right away and that was a wonderful circumstance.
Now later, it took two years, involving 12 or 13 debates, to add St. John the Baptist to the list of patrons because there was a very distinct opposition. It was not because they had any radical objection to St. John the Baptist nor that they disagreed with what is now attributed to him. But they were painfully afraid of tinkering with the system. They said: "We'll now have every saint in the world presented to us for incorporation into the Legion, every saint on earth." Of course, that is a possibility. And it was from that point of view that the opposition presented itself and it took two years to overcome it.
Well, anyway, that's how the Promise came into existence and it has been tremendously justified. Here and there have arisen some examples of members who have hesitated with regard to the Promise. There are some phrases about Our Lady's role in regard to the Holy Spirit which seem to contain the suggestion that she enjoys His full power and that's too much for some of the brethren. They say: "I can't accept that." The rules provide for a period of thought and then if that person is still obdurate, he cannot be received. And that's been absolutely steadfastly adhered to.
The Acies
At that time, there already had emerged certain periodic functions, for instance, the Annual Reunion. So much so quickly asserted itself that the Annual Reunion took place on the First Anniversary of the coming into existence of the Legion. There's a picture of it in the Legion office, a picture of the first assembly of the whole Legion. Now that emerged quickly.
Then emerged the recommendation that each Praesidium should hold a reunion of its own members. That recommendation has had a mixed fate. It has not been a general practice in the Legion since very few praesidia follow it. But then it was only a recommendation.
Well, then came the question of a very serious function and that is the solemn consecration of the Legion. That was a remarkable event which will remain in the minds of those who took part in it. The venue determined was that big room where Concilium meeting is held. The number of members in Dublin at that particular time was something over 550. Well, now, the first question was how would you get 550 members into that room and be able to maneuver them. This involved chalking out the whole floor. In preparation they had got the number of members of each praesidium and they allowed them a certain amount of square feet of space for each member and room for passages. In the corner of the room at that time was a platform for singing and that sort of thing for the women of the Regina Coeli. On this platform was erected the altar and the members had to proceed up to that altar to make the short Act of Consecration before the Vexillum and to return to their place.
A very important person at the time who happened to be present at that ceremony was the future Bishop of Galway. He happened to be meeting with Frank about something or other and Frank told him about this Acies ceremony and he declared his wish to be present at it and he was. He declared emphatically that it was the most impressive thing he had ever seen. It was because that big body of people each made the consecration singly. It was tremendously devotional and, as the Handbook itself says about it, from its very first occasion it established itself as the leading function of the Legion of Mary.
The Annual General Reunion
As mentioned, another Legion function is the Annual or General Reunion. Well, nothing very specific has ever been laid down about the character of the General Reunion except that the Legion prayers should be said, that there should be some sort of spiritual talk and then that they should make it a genuine good class entertainment for themselves. The note is to be one of enjoyment and lightheartedness.
Concilium has made recommendations that it should not be held in hotels nor should it be an expensive proposition because that rules out simpler people. The question of the availability of drink should be considered in a negative way. There are some curiae that resorted to hotels where there'd be a bar and there you had the possibility of the whole function going astray. It should not be a luxurious thing.
Frank Duff remembered in his one and only visit to the United States of America when he visited Dayton that the time corresponded with the General Reunion of the Legion there. It was in the month of December and they held it in a hotel and a far too luxurious meal was placed before the members. He found himself, while availing of it, disagreeing. You have to be very careful about these things remembering that we should be catering all the time for lesser brethren. They and not the "Upper Crust" must be the special solicitude of the Legion. The Legion is speaking from practical experience where we have found out that, for example, in one case, a large family who were all in the Legion but were not able to come.
Continue at Pre History of the Legion